"Econ 102" with Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg

• Understanding US-China Relations Right Now with Nathan Labenz

  In this week’s episode of Econ 102, Noah Smith, with special guest Nathan Labenz, unpack the U.S.-China relations, examining geopolitical tensions, strategic economic policies, AI and military technology, and the future of global technological leadership, while questioning the effectiveness of current U.S. policies and the risks of escalating conflicts under Xi Jinping's aggressive strategies. -- 🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse. -- RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Check out Nathan Labenz's podcast The Cognitive Revolution Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast/ -- Highlights from the Episode: The US and China were largely de facto allies throughout the 20th century, except for brief periods like the Korean War. Xi Jinping's "great changes unseen in a century" doctrine signals intent to challenge US-led global order. US chip export controls have been effective at limiting China's advanced chip manufacturing. Military technology prioritizes maintaining a technological edge in precision weapons and autonomous systems, with conventional deterrence still key despite nuclear capabilities, while chip controls focus on preserving advantages in military applications over civilian technology. Concerns about AI competition include skepticism over maintaining US "AI supremacy," the potential difficulty in containing AI capabilities like those of DeepSeek, and the risk that an aggressive approach could escalate conflict. -- SPONSORS: NetSuite More than 41,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine learning: https://netsuite.com/102 Notion 📝Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at https://notion.com/upstreampod AdQuick The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit https://adquick.com/ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.  -- SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: [email protected] -- FOLLOW ON X: @labenz @noahpinion @eriktorenberg @turpentinemedia -- RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE: Noahpinion: https://www.noahpinion.blog/ Dwarkesh podcast with Sarah Paine https://youtu.be/fx6fakjQBdo?si=FR4ZGTGWzXsO4__E Book: Rush Doshi, The Long Game https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52617647-the-long-game Book: John Mearsheimer Conventional Deterrence https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/224128.Conventional_Deterrence Noahpinion essay: Simple Lessons from China's Big AI Breakthrough https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/some-simple-lessons-from-chinas-big Noahpinion Essay: The Elemental Foe https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/the-elemental-foe?utm_source=publication-search

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• Paul Krugman on Leaving NYT, America's Economy, and Trump

  This week Noah Smith and economist Paul Krugman hopped on a call to discuss Paul's departure from the New York Times, the benefits of independent writing, U.S. manufacturing and industrial policy, geopolitics, Trump 2.0, and the impact of public opinion on economic and political discourse. This conversation first aired in Noah's substack Noahpinion, so be sure to subscribe if you aren't already. -- 🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse. -- Highlights from the Episode: (for more head to https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/paul-krugman-and-noah-smith-have) Discussed the transitioning from traditional media (NYT, Bloomberg) to Substack for greater editorial freedom and authentic voice, noting that traditional outlets still maintain an "establishment" mindset. On Substack, Krugman settlies on 1100 words per post and Noah aims for 2000-2500 words. Public perception of the economy often shifts dramatically based on political affiliation rather than actual economic conditions. How the Ukraine war has highlighted the importance of manufacturing capability for national security. Current Political Climate: Greater concern about current political risks compared to previous eras like the Reagan administration. Explored how national security concerns are reshaping trade policy thinking. -- SPONSORS: NetSuite More than 41,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine learning: https://netsuite.com/102 Notion 📝Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at https://notion.com/upstreampod AdQuick The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit https://adquick.com/ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.  -- SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: [email protected] -- FOLLOW ON X: @paulkrugman @noahpinion @eriktorenberg @turpentinemedia -- LINKS: Noahpinion: https://www.noahpinion.blog/ https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/paul-krugman-and-noah-smith-have

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• Trump's Executive Orders, China's Economy, The Bull Case for the Middle East, and Europe's Decline

  In this episode, Erik Torenberg and Noah Smith discuss wide range of topics, including Trump’s executive orders and their effects on U.S. politics, international tariffs, Michael Pettis's views on China's economy, the Middle East’s potential with solar energy, and Europe’s socio-political shifts, all through the lens of economics. -- 🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse. -- Highlights from the Episode: There's worry about potential economic instability if Trump's aggressive trade policies lead to stagflation. Concern about China potentially influencing Trump through various financial mechanisms, including cryptocurrency. The Middle East holds a surprisingly optimistic outlook, with the end of the "oil curse" prompting institutional growth, its geography offering ideal conditions for solar energy, and the potential for solar-powered desalination to transform agriculture. European countries struggle more with integration due to different cultural approaches and institutional structures. Interesting parallel drawn between Europe's historical transformation after the 30 Years War and potential for Middle East development. -- SPONSORS: NetSuite More than 41,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine learning: https://netsuite.com/102 Notion 📝Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at https://notion.com/upstreampod AdQuick The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit https://adquick.com/ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.  -- SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: [email protected] -- FOLLOW ON X: @noahpinion @eriktorenberg @turpentinemedia -- LINKS: Noahpinion: https://www.noahpinion.blog/

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• Noah Smith on Taiwan's Future, Nuclear Proliferation, and Trump 2.0 [ChinaTalk]

  While traveling to Taiwan, Noah Smith sat down with ChinaTalk's managing editor and Taipei correspondent Lily Ottinger to explore wide range of geopolitical and economic issues, including the potential impacts of a second Trump administration on Asia, where Elon Musk stands on Taiwan, nuclear proliferation, China's economic strategies, Taiwan's defense and diplomatic policies, and demographic shifts. -- 🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse. -- RECOMMENDED PODCAST: ChinaTalk Check out ChinaTalk. Conversations exploring China, technology, and US-China relations. Guests include a wide range of analysts, policymakers, and academics. Hosted by Jordan Schneider. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/chinatalk/id1289062927 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/448WaJhgJGJKnQ3HCE2EBa YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ChinaTalkMedia -- Highlights from the Episode: Trump's coalition now includes a powerful tech sector pushing for deregulation, while his personal corruption and susceptibility to influence could make him vulnerable to China, particularly through platforms like TikTok, with export controls serving as a key indicator of his policy stance toward Beijing. Nuclear weapons have historically proven effective at preventing invasion of states that possess them. China is experiencing debt deflation similar to Japan's 1990s situation, where falling prices increase the real burden of debt. Xi Jinping's conservative economic views, particularly resistance to stimulus and healthcare spending, may prolong recovery. Taiwan's laid-back culture and success stand in stark contrast to mainland China's approach. Under Xi, China has reversed some of the liberalization that occurred under previous leaders. -- SPONSORS: NetSuite More than 41,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine learning: https://netsuite.com/102 Notion 📝Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at https://notion.com/upstreampod AdQuick The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit https://adquick.com/ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.  -- SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: [email protected] -- FOLLOW ON X: @noahpinion @eriktorenberg @turpentinemedia -- LINKS: Noahpinion: https://www.noahpinion.blog/ ChinaTalk: https://www.chinatalk.media/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/lily-ottinger/

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  1:11:56
• A Debate with Scott Sumner: Industrial Policy, China, and National Security

  In this episode, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg are joined by Scott Sumner, an American economist and previously the Director of the Program on Monetary Policy at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, examine the impact of U.S.-China relations on economic and industrial policies, discussing topics such as tariffs, manufacturing capabilities, technologies like drones and batteries, climate change, defense strategies, and the evolving role of neoliberalism. -- 🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse. -- RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Modern Relationships Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod -- Highlights from the Episode: Neoliberalism vs. Industrial Policy: The world is moving away from neoliberalism toward industrial policy and authoritarian nationalism. Chinese manufacturing of green technology has supported global climate efforts, sparking debate over whether US trade barriers on Chinese green tech are counterproductive, alongside a discussion of carbon taxes versus other climate policies. China now matches US and allies combined in manufacturing capacity. Trump's tariffs are seen as ineffective for reindustrialization, while Biden's CHIPS Act and IRA are viewed as more successful in specific sectors, prompting a discussion on targeted versus broad industrial policies. Housing and healthcare costs are significant barriers to living standards. -- SPONSORS: Notion 📝Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at https://notion.com/upstreampod NetSuite More than 41,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine learning: https://netsuite.com/102 AdQuick The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit https://adquick.com/ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.  -- SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: [email protected] -- FOLLOW ON X: @ScottSumnerTMI @noahpinion @eriktorenberg @turpentinemedia -- LINKS: Noahpinion: https://www.noahpinion.blog/ The Pursuit of Happiness: https://scottsumner.substack.com/

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