It's Not the Car

You’re not scared. Right?
Tom Roberts is a driver coach, an aerobatic pilot, a racer, a Buddhist, a former dentist, and a student of fear at the wheel. 
His new book, From Fear to Flow: Transform Your Ego and Uncover the Life You Were Meant to Live, unpacks the relationship between fear and peak human performance.
(Spoiler: It’s complicated.)
FUN FACT: For the last decade, Tom and INTC co-host Ross Bentley have taken a small group of driving students to the Nürburgring—probably the single most intimidating race track on earth.
What can you learn about fear and flow from crashing at Spa, coaching drivers at the world’s largest road course, doing charity dental work in Tibet, and helping Nepalese lamas build a monastery?
An awful lot, as it turns out. And we talked about all of it.
***
TIMESTAMPS:
03:10 – Tom and Ross and the Ring Trips
05:39 – Getting Into Racing and Flying
11:15 – Flow State vs. Ego and Fear
26:34 – Parenting and Roots
28:26 – Fighting Ego at the Ring
32:51 – Anxiety and Flow
52:14 – What to Do About It? (and Fun)
***
CHECK OUT TOM’S BOOK: 
https://amplifypublishinggroup.com/product/nonfiction/health-medicine-and-wellness/mental-health/from-fear-to-flow/
***
This episode was produced by Sam Smith. 
Thanks, as always, to our friends at BFGoodrich for supporting the show!
**
Who We Are + Spicy Merch:
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.ItsNotTheCar.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Support It’s Not the Car:
Contribute on Patreon ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.patreon.com/notthecar⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Topic suggestions, feedback, questions? Let us know what you think!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠INTCPod@gmail.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Check out Sam's book!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Smithology: Thoughts, Travels, and Semi-Plausible Car Writing, 2003–2023⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Where to find us:
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/intcpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thatsamsmith/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/j.v.braun/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://rossbentley.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://speedsecrets.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
ABOUT THE SHOW:
It’s Not the Car is a podcast about people and speed. We tell racing stories and leave out the boring parts.
Ross Bentley is a former IndyCar driver, a bestselling author, and a world-renowned performance coach. Jeff Braun is a champion race engineer. Sam Smith is an award-winning writer and a former executive editor of Road & Track magazine.
We don’t love racing for the nuts and bolts—we love it for what it asks of the meatbag at the wheel.
New episodes every other Tuesday.

Big announcement in this one, kids! No spoilers! Especially not having to do with the one and only Roger Penske, no sir!
This is one of our rare “chat” shows—Jeff, Ross, and Sam gone full chill hang. With this one, they're together on the mic for the first time in months, catching up after a long summer. 
(We almost never do this, but you guys have asked for it, so it’s a pleasure!)
Timestamps:
02:57 – “One Night Only” — Jeff’s Son Wrote a Hollywood Movie!
05:53 – Ross Goes Full Nürburgring Recap
17:25 – Jeff Makes a Life Change
31:38 – The Importance of Being Earnest
34:33 – Avoiding Burnout in Things You Love
41:08 – Bucket Lists and the Jeff Braun Kyle Busch Story
(Confession time: We almost titled this episode, “THE ONE WHERE JEFF DOESN’T TELL ROGER PENSKE NO.” But that just seemed cheap.)
(We have standards, you know?)
(Stop laughing. We do! Really!)
*
This show’s format rotates weekly, because squirrel. We call this format “OFF THE CUFF.”
This episode was produced by Sam Smith. 
Thanks, as always, to our friends at BFGoodrich for supporting the show!
**
Who We Are + Spicy Merch:
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.ItsNotTheCar.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Support It’s Not the Car:
Contribute on Patreon ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.patreon.com/notthecar⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Topic suggestions, feedback, questions? Let us know what you think!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠INTCPod@gmail.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Check out Sam's book!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Smithology: Thoughts, Travels, and Semi-Plausible Car Writing, 2003–2023⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Where to find us:
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/intcpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thatsamsmith/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/j.v.braun/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/rossbentley/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://rossbentley.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://speedsecrets.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
ABOUT THE SHOW:
It’s Not the Car is a podcast about people and speed. We tell racing stories and leave out the boring parts.
Ross Bentley is a former IndyCar driver, a bestselling author, and a world-renowned performance coach. Jeff Braun is a champion race engineer. Sam Smith is an award-winning writer and a former executive editor of Road & Track magazine.
We don’t love racing for the nuts and bolts—we love it for what it asks of the meatbag at the wheel.
New episodes every other Tuesday.

This summer, for the first time in 15 years, IndyCar unveiled a new chassis. The Dallara IR-28 has a chance to change everything about the world’s fastest wheel-to-wheel racing. And when the car takes its first green flag in 2028, maybe it will.
Paul Pfanner founded RACER magazine in the early 1990s and bloomed that brand into the media empire it is today.
Ten years ago, IndyCar management asked Pfanner and a few other visionaries to help dream up what the next IndyCar could be. The car that group proposed is not the IR-28—but that, Paul says, isn’t important. 
What is important: Whether anyone at IndyCar is asking the right questions. And whether they’ve got the guts to be brave.
*
This show’s format rotates weekly, because squirrel. We call this format “GUEST TEACHES EVERYBODY.”
This episode was produced by Sam Smith. 
Thanks, as always, to our friends at BFGoodrich for supporting the show!
**
PAUL’S COLUMNS ON MOTORSPORT:
https://www.pfancom.com/insights?author=5f6d579bf52bd37e3669f9d6
*
DAN GURNEY’S WHITE PAPER:
https://legacy.allamericanracers.com/wp/formation-of-cart-dan-gurney/
**
Who We Are + Spicy Merch:
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.ItsNotTheCar.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Support It’s Not the Car:
Contribute on Patreon ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.patreon.com/notthecar⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Topic suggestions, feedback, questions? Let us know what you think!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠INTCPod@gmail.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Check out Sam's book!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Smithology: Thoughts, Travels, and Semi-Plausible Car Writing, 2003–2023⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Where to find us:
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/intcpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thatsamsmith/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/j.v.braun/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/rossbentley/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://rossbentley.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://speedsecrets.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
ABOUT THE SHOW:
It’s Not the Car is a podcast about people and speed. We tell racing stories and leave out the boring parts.
Ross Bentley is a former IndyCar driver, a bestselling author, and a world-renowned performance coach. Jeff Braun is a champion race engineer. Sam Smith is an award-winning writer and a former executive editor of Road & Track magazine.
We don’t love racing for the nuts and bolts—we love it for what it asks of the meatbag at the wheel.
New episodes every other Tuesday.

This episode is about how racing sucks you in—even (or perhaps especially) if it’s tied to your day job. And never more than with endurance racing.
Last month, BFGoodrich invited Ross and Sam to co-drive a Porsche Boxster in a ChampCar enduro weekend at VIR. 
A lot happened. Way too much! Chiefly, though, our two co-hosts chatted with some smart people. They talked about why everyone from track-day junkies to moonlighting pros bothers to go amateur endurance racing—and why this quirky little corner of the sport has never been larger or more successful.
*
00:00 – 32:00 — TJ DENNIS and ED GLISS: Brand manager for BFG’s Ultra-High Performance division (Dennis). A former Michelin test driver turned marketer (Gliss). And two driving die-hards who currently own and track an NB Miata and an E90 BMW M3 on weekends. They get it. 
*
32:00 – 49:00 — DAVID KICAK: Former IMSA and Trans-Am driver. Marketing and sponsor manager for the ChampCar Endurance Series. Has known Ross since the 1990s. He also gets it.
*
This show’s format rotates weekly, because squirrel. We call this format “IN THE TRENCHES.”
This episode was produced by Sam Smith. 
Thanks, as always, to our friends at BFGoodrich for supporting the show!
**
Who We Are + Spicy Merch:
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.ItsNotTheCar.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Support It’s Not the Car:
Contribute on Patreon ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.patreon.com/notthecar⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Topic suggestions, feedback, questions? Let us know what you think!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠INTCPod@gmail.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Check out Sam's book!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Smithology: Thoughts, Travels, and Semi-Plausible Car Writing, 2003–2023⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Where to find us:
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/intcpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thatsamsmith/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/j.v.braun/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/rossbentley/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://speedsecrets.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
ABOUT THE SHOW:
It’s Not the Car is a podcast about people and speed. We tell racing stories and leave out the boring parts.
Ross Bentley is a former IndyCar driver, a bestselling author, and a world-renowned performance coach. Jeff Braun is a champion race engineer. Sam Smith is an award-winning writer and a former executive editor of Road & Track magazine.
We don’t love racing for the nuts and bolts—we love it for what it asks of the meatbag at the wheel.
New episodes every other Tuesday.

Balázs Remenyik is a professional sim racer and the official simulator development driver for the Citroën Formula E team. He’s also chief instructor at the Speed Secrets Sim Racer Academy, where INTC co-host Ross Bentley is founder and head coach.
Sam and Balázs talked earlier this year—Sam called him up to get a pro sim driver’s insight into the topics discussed on this week’s main-feed show.
This is one of the world’s best sim racers walking through the basics of digital driving. On top of that, Balász talks about getting started in sims—how he kicked off a hobby that led to a pro career.
***
IN THIS EP: Does hardware matter? — Why fast drivers in real life are slow on a sim — Tricks of the aliens — Setup and self improvement — Screens versus VR — and more!
This episode was produced by Sam Smith. 
Thanks, as always, to our friends at BFGoodrich for supporting the show!
**
Who We Are + Spicy Merch:
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.ItsNotTheCar.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Support It’s Not the Car:
Contribute on Patreon ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.patreon.com/notthecar⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Topic suggestions, feedback, questions? Let us know what you think!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠INTCPod@gmail.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Check out Sam's book!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Smithology: Thoughts, Travels, and Semi-Plausible Car Writing, 2003–2023⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
Where to find us:
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/intcpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thatsamsmith/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/j.v.braun/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/rossbentley/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://rossbentley.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://speedsecrets.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
**
ABOUT THE SHOW:
It’s Not the Car is a podcast about people and speed. We tell racing stories and leave out the boring parts.
Ross Bentley is a former IndyCar driver, a bestselling author, and a world-renowned performance coach. Jeff Braun is a champion race engineer. Sam Smith is an award-winning writer and a former executive editor of Road & Track magazine.
We don’t love racing for the nuts and bolts—we love it for what it asks of the meatbag at the wheel.
New episodes every other Tuesday.